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7 October 1966 incident with the "Mighty Mo"

Robert Stoner to Ken, me, Randy

Hello everyone (and please pass this along to other correspondents involved),

Let me chime-in with some background on the 7 October 1966 incident with the "Mighty Mo" as well as other things.

SEALs got involved in operations in and around Nha Be in early 1966. To the best of my knowledge, all of the initial operators were from ST-1 in Coronado. ST-2 got involved in 1967 and they brought with them their own STAB (SEAL Team Assault Boats) that were purposely modified at ST-2 in Little Creek. These boats were the PowerCat 23, a tri-hull fiberglass boat that mounted two 115 hp Mercury outboards. This STAB was slightly smaller than the later all-aluminum LSSC. Doc Riojas remembers operating from the old STAB and some of its problems (like flooding over the transom). The following photos are from LIFE magazine via Jim Gray. They show STAB operations from Nha Be in late 1967 or early 1968. (Doc, do any of these faces look familiar?)

Anyhow, the members of ST-1 at Nha Be scrounged and modified a Mk 4 LCPL (steel-hulled) and an LCM Mk 6. The Mk 4 wasn't too heavily modified and may have been discarded early-on. However, the LCM was heavily modified and it became the "Mighty Mo" as described in the story. I have been unable to find much on the Mighty Mo other than some photos and a write-up on CPO Herb Ruth (SEAL) who was involved in the fight that night.

Above: CPO Herb Ruth went on to be a commissioned officer. This is LT Herb Ruth of ST-2 taken at Little Creek.

It was a real gunfight with no quarter given by either side. Herb was attached to ST-1 at the time (he later went to ST-2 and made other deployments to RVN). CPO Ruth and several other SEALs received decorations for their actions that night and all members of the Mighty Mo received Purple Hearts. I have not found anyone who can confirm this, but I believe the Mighty Mo was so damaged by the 7 October 1966 battle that it was eventually scrapped.

Above: The slightly modified Mk 4 LCPL of ST-1 at Nha Be in early 1967 is very much a jury rigged affair (photo: Chuck LeMoyne)

Here are photos of the Mighty Mo as it was modified by ST-1:

Above and below: The "Mighty Mo" under construction at Nha Be in 1966 (photo: Frank Anderson)

Above: The "Mighty Mo" topside looking aft 1966 (photo: Chuck LeMoyne)

Below: The "Mighty Mo" beauty shot taken before the 7 October 1966 battle (photo: Jerry Clark)

Below: Another shot of the "Mighty Mo" alongside an improvised pier in 1966 (photo: "Doc" Riojas)

One of the outcomes of the 7 October 1966 firefight was that Naval Special Warfare Group decided there was a need for a division of labor aboard the boats that supported SEAL operations. The result was BSU-1 in Coronado was tapped to provide dedicated boat crews and the SEALs (and UDTs) would do the operational jobs. In Coronado, BSU-1 converted two LCM-6 and four LCPL Mk 4 into boats for the SEAL/UDT operators. The conversions were sent to RVN as part of Project ZULU and arrived beginning in March 1967. Dedicated boat crews in RVN were called MST (Mobile Support Teams). MST-1 operated from DaNang supporting VNN raids using PTF gunboats; MST-2 operated in the Delta supporting SEAL/UDT operations from various bases. Initial HSSC/LCPL operations were from Nha Be and Can Tho (later My Tho) in the Delta.

Above: The Can Tho/My Tho boat as it appeared in Project ZULU. Note the two modified Mk 4 LCPLs outboard of the HSSC. This boat would be heavily modified as the war progressed. (photo: Jim Gray)

Below: The Can Tho/My Tho boat in early 1968 before the Mini-gun was added. Note the increased armor around the engine room that has been added. (photo: Jim Gray)

Above: The Can Tho/My Tho HSSC in 1969 before the addition of bar armor to the forward hull. The Mini-gun is pointing at the photographer and the Mk 2 81mm mortar is pointed down to keep out water (photo: Don Crawford)

Below: The Nha Be HSSC is high and dry. Compare the difference in layouts and armoring of the stern compared to the Can Tho/My Tho HSSC (photo: Randy Miller)

Above: The Nha Be HSSC in full portside view. Note the separate gun tube for the forward firing twin .50 machine guns. These guns had oversized ammunition boxes. The Can Tho/My Tho boat had a Mini-gun in a tub at the lip of the top deck. Both boats had the M40A1 106mm recoilless rifle mounted on the top deck (photo: Ron Allen)

Below: A detail photo of the forward twin .50 machine guns and oversize ammo boxes to feed them (photo: Ron Allen)

The Mk 4 LCPLs were heavily used over the next several years and were replaced by the MSSC beginning in 1969. The LCPLs were all gone by 1970. The Can Tho/My Tho LCM (now called the HSSC) eventually found its way to SEA FLOAT/SOLID ANCHOR at Nam Can on the Cau Lon River on the Ca Mau Peninsula. It sank in a storm while tied to the ARL off Square Bay in January 1971. The other HSSC stayed at Nha Be for most of its operating life, but I don't know what happened to it. It might have been turned over to the LDNNs when all the MST boat crews and SEALs/UDTs left country in 1971.

Speaking of snakes, the three ST-1 platoons at SOLID ANCHOR had a pet python that lived under their hooches and kept the rat population down (and we had some really bigones). Some idiot poured gasoline on the poor thing, but he recovered. When ST-1 left country, the snake came with them and went through several owners in Coronado and finally found a home with a SEAL in Imperial Beach. Unfortunately, the python got out and caused a major fuss. He was recaptured after about three weeks and was donated to the San Diego Zoo, where he was very happy in retirement.

Regards,

Bob Stoner

WEBMASTER NOTE:

The SEAL Team TWO 7th Platoon, 1967 home based in MyTho Vietnam had BSU-1 operators and a "Mighty Mo" with a 81 mortar in the well deck forward, a recoiless rife and a mini gun on the flat top. I do not remember a .50 cal. Machine gun aft.

Boynton,Constance,Riojas,Ashton, Matthews, Rowell

TopRow:Lt to Rt: Hook Turre, Jack Rowell, Curtis Ashton, Mike Boynton, Fred Keener, Roy Dean Matthews. Bottom Row Lt to Rt: Robert "Eagle" Gallagher, Erasmo "Doc" Riojas, Rinney, Harry Constance, Robert "Pete Peterson , Charlie Jesse. The Origional ST-2 7th Pltn. Our first tour to MyTho (home base) but operated all over IV CORPs areas of 'nam.

Missing: Gene Fraley , Rinney's handler(KIA), Billy Burbank (transferred to PRUs), W.O.Charlie Watson returned to Little Creek due to Illness. This photo was taken in MyTho at the PBR base. Rinney made too much noise in the jungle. He went on two Ops and was used to interrogate captured VCs. The photo says May 1968, which is when the film was developed, photo was taken in late 1967.

We relieved "Moose" Boinotte's, "Pee Wee" Nealy's platoon at the Carter Hotel, MyTho RVN 1967. We had a BSU-1 platoon with us for the Mike Boat and one of the Origional STABs "by Mattell."

SEVENTH Plt, ST-2, 1967-1968: Best I can remember: We ran over 100 clandestine Ops in IV Corps RVN. Awards: 14 Combat Action Ribbons, 1 Navy Cross, 2 Silver Stars, 14 Bronze Stars, 12 Purple Hearts (two were refused), 14 VN gallantry Crosses, 12 Navy Achievement Medals and SEAL unit awards, Presidential and Navy. http://www.militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/recipient.php?recipientid=4405 "Eagle" Gallagher Navy Cross.

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011
Robert Stoner

wrote: More and more of our former BSU/MST guys are finding their way home at www.warboats.org.

Given the dangerous op areas we worked, that Dets BRAVO and CHARLIE made it through their tours without any serious injuries. BM2 Austin Moore got a ruptured ear drum from a B-40 hit; GMG2 Dick Kush got hit in the inner thigh by a large chunk of brass when his .50 blew-up, and EN2 Mike Meils was medevaced due to a severe allergic reaction from a second mosquito bite. (The fist got him swelled-up and no duty for a week.) Everyone didn't get a scratch. Damn lucky.

The Det that relieved us got nailed big time by two B-40s in late January 1971. LT Thames (LDNN advisor) and his LDNN interpreter were killed; LT Bob Natter (MST), his GMG1 and GMGSN were critically wounded and evacuated. Don Crawford (SEAL) brought the LSSC back to SOLID ANCHOR. -----

From: Erasmo "Doc" Riojas
To: Robert Stoner ; Glen Grinage Cc: Ken Delfino ; Randy Miller
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: 7 OCT 66

I forgot to include GLEN GRINNAGE EN3, our STAB driver, still alive and well in JAPAN ; He did some very hairy OPs with us. What pisses me off you guys did not get hardly any credit for the stuff you survived with SEALs.

I wish somebody would reverse that and somehow give you guys the medal you deserve. I blame the Boat Support officers that ran your show. They got theirs and you guy s did not even get a hand shake.

Doc RIojas

18 JUNE 2011

Robert Stoner

Any guys, SEALs, that were as crazy to do the kind of things you did had to be gotten out if you got in trouble.

We'd have moved Heaven and Earth to extract you if there was a way to do it. Ditto for the Seawolves.

Brothers protect brothers.

BOB

From:Randy Miller

to: Robert, Ken, me, Bill Bob,

Thanks for the info, guess I started something. I didn't realize Seals were in Nha Be operating their own boats. When I was there from Oct 67 to Apr 68, we had an HSSC (we called the mighty MO), 2 LCPL's and 2/3 Boston Whalers, no Powercat 23's, no STABs.

Bill Moreo and I drove Whalers on Seal op's numerous times. He came back to Can Tho/My Tho in late 68 with the early version STABS. l I'll try to send you some pic's I have of our BSU/MST-3 dedicated boats. Jim Grey has copies of some of my pictures. It was 45 years ago, so everyone's history gets a little different. No matter what, it was a hell of a time.

Doc is right, we never got any credit from the Seals in most of their books. We took'em in, floated around and waited for their call, and got them out, every time while I was there. And BSU personnel drove and operated the Nasties out of Danang and we never got credit for that either, it was always the Seals PTF's that was mentioned, not BSU/MST.

Thanks for all your memories and thoughts, as Bill says, thanks for having my back.

Your brother in arms, GO NAVY !!

Randy
(The Bear) PS: The 4th pic down, the guy with the nice hair I think was a Seal named Martin. The 2nd pic down may be Moreo driving the boat.

fromRobert Stoner Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:05 AM

toKen Delfino
Erasmo \"Doc\" Riojas
Randy Miller

Bill Moreo
im Gray

Guys

The thing to remember -- now with 40+ years of hindsight -- that everything was in the process of being invented. When ST-1 got in-country in 1966, they literally had to scrounge boats to operate. Their modified LCPL and Mike 6 "Mighty Mo" were prime examples. In these early days, the SEALs crewed their own boats as well as ran operations because no one had thought of a different way to do things! The 7 October 1966 gunfight got the ball rolling to change this natural division of labor -- boat crew and operators -- and the handoff was made to BSU-1. Project ZULU was the result and it demonstrated the principle of the separate boat crew plus field operator team that we remember.

ST-2 came to RVN in 1967 and they brought the STABs with them. The PowerCat 23 tri-hull commercial boat was modified in-house by ST-2 at Little Creek and brought over. As far as I have been able to find out, there were originally three (four?) original STABs. One STAB never made it out of the U.S. -- while being airlifted by a CH-46 Sea Knight, the cargo straps failed and the boat fell into a parking lot at Little Creek. The STAB was damaged beyond repair and several cars were destroyed. The hulk was used for weapon's immunity trials. The other two (three?) boats came over to RVN with their deploying ST-2 platoon. STAB operations began in October-November of 1967 and continued for over a year. Eventually both boats were worn-out and retired. The replacement was the aluminum LSSC. [Trivia: The PowerCat STABs in RVN had "STAB I" and "STAB II" painted on the bows in black paint. You can barely make out STAB I on the bow of this November 1967 photo.]

None of my SEAL contacts have been able to confirm the fate of the "Mighty Mo" after the 7 October 1966 gunfight. It may have been too badly damaged to repair. Or, it was not repaired because it was replaced by two brand new, stateside converted LCM Mk 6 or HSSC that arrived under Project ZULU.

Other problems with pinning things down definitively: (1) SEAL/UDT/MST operations were classified and much of what we're now discussing was under wraps for 25 years, (2) as Jim Gray knows -- NSWG cleaned out a lot of files in the mid-1980s and a lot of historical, day-to-day information went to the dumpster, (3) many of the guys -- especially ones who were the early players -- have passed away and can't help. What's then happened is we're recreating our history as we lived it based on period photos and fading recollections plus some documents of the times that have survived.

This one's for you, Doc Rio. When I was at the GWVN reunion in San Antonio, President John Woody introduced me to Dr. Jim Reckner who heads up the Vietnam studies department at Texas Tech. Dr, Jim is ex-Navy and served with the 7th Fleet ships off the coast of Vietnam. I would talk to Jim about your website, because you've got tons of information that will go away if you can't maintain it any longer. If you want to contact Dr, Jim, I can help you there.

Bob

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Lt to Rt: Charlie Bump, Bill Garnett, Pierre Ponson SEAL Team TWO on one of the origional S.T.A.B. boats in the 'nam war games. Note the width of the river.

Fm: Jim Dickson jdickson [at] aceweb.com
To: Doc Riojas docrio45 [at] gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008
Subject: Vietnam War story about ST-1 & "Mighty Mo"

1966 :SEAL Team One ambushed in the Rung Sat

Mighty Mo, SEAL Team ONE's heavily armed Mike boat (LCM) is ambushed in the Rung Sat Special Zone, a four hundred square mile mangrove swamp surrounding the main (Long Tau R.) and alternate (Soi Rap R.) shipping channels between Saigon and the South China Sea.

On Friday night, 7 OCT 66, Mighty Mo was on the upper Dong Tranh River. Also on the same river was a force in excess of 150 NVA reroute to attack the PBR base at Nha Be'. (This was revealed in documents captured in a later SEAL operation.) When the NVA heard Mighty Mo's engines they quickly set up an ambush on both sides of the narrow river. The first shot was a direct hit amidships with a motar round. The SEALs and crew of Mighty Mo responded with five .50 caliber machine guns, two .30 calibers, a mortar and a recoilless rifle. When the battle was over everyone aboard the Mike boat was wounded and fifty-eight enemy were dead.

I remember parts of that night very well. We were at our battle stations (mine was the stern .50 cal behind the pilot house) straining to see or hear anything in that dark calm night. The engines were turning as slowly and quietly as possible. It was the loudest quiet I have ever heard.

Then suddenly they scored a direct hit with a mortar round and both river banks erupted with gunfire. Nobody gave the order to return fire--we just did. (Couldn't have heard it anyhow.) Because I was on the stern I remember the smell of the diesel exhausts and the canvas canopy burning above my head and of course the noise level. It was the loudest night of my life.

I remember alternating fire from one river bank to the other while trying my best to fire in short five round bursts. Shrapnel from an exploding recoilless rifle round penetrated my helmet and I was knocked out instantly. I was reloading at the time so I was looking down. If I had been looking forward it would have hit me in the face. (Lucky me.)

I temporarily regained consciousness while they were putting me on a helicopter. Although it had died down considerably the fire fight was still going on. Again I briefly regained consciousness at the Third Field Hospital, Saigon where a chaplain was giving me the Last Rites. Within one hour of getting wounded I was being operated on by an Army neurosurgeon. When I woke up three days later the ward was full of guys from the Mike boat.

Among the first to notice that I was awake were LCDR McCullough, BM1 Roger Moscone and an EN2 whose name I can't remember. They were standing at the foot of my bed with smiles on their faces so I knew that I would pull through. LCDR McCullough had one of those honorable John Wayne type leg wounds that enabled him to hobble around the ward with the aid of a cane to visit his men. I heard that some years later he made Captain. Good for him. He was a good officer.

I crossed paths with a lot of heroes that night and owe them my life. Among them are whoever put a battle dressing on my head, the guys who put me on the chopper, the guys who stayed at their stations and returned fire, the helicopter crew who landed at night in a fire fight and everyone at the Third Field Hospital, Saigon.

Army Medics have told me that most head wounds in Vietnam died. I would have been lucky to live another forty-two minutes. It has turned into forty-two years and except for dead brain cells that affect my memory I'm still going strong. Every day since then has been something extra. Even "bad days" could be worse.

Jim Dickson

I just remembered Dick Pearson, SEAL Team One, Det Golf was on the fore ward starboard .50 cal the night of the ambush. He visited me at a Mobile Riverine Force Reunion in San Diego in 2001 and filled some blank spots in my memory. I really appreciated that.

I just remembered Admiral Ward sent my father a letter after I was wounded (copy enclosed). I've got to tell you that letter cut through a lot of red tape with the VA.

From: Jim Dickson
To: Doc Riojas
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: 7 OCT 66 - This Date in Vietnam History

Hi Doc Riojas,

I thought you might be interested in an email that Franklin Anderson sent out last year on 7 OCT 66. (see below)

: This Date in Vietnam History----This was a sad day, even though we never had any KIA, We suffered some permanent injuries that forced two men to retire--LTJG Bill. Pachacek, and PO Bob Henry.

CPO Herb Ruth was on one of the machine guns and the barrell was so hot you could see the rounds going through it. When it was all over the barrells were drooping. We lost our first casualty on 19 August 66 (Billy Machen), and from that day forward SEAL DET GOLF took vengence on the VC.

Capt Weyers (Then a LT) was instrumental in the initial success of SEAL'S actions in the RSSZ, that paved the way for their continued success, even today.

One of the Boat Crew Jim Dickson suffered head wounds and also was retired. A GALLANT Group of men that to this day can not go through the Airport Security without setting off the alarms.

HOOYAH - Franklin ( I was CO of SEAL Team ONE at this time)

Billy Machen was the point man on a patrol. As he was going through an open area he noticed the VC were lying in ambush. They were waiting for him to pass through so they could hit the main group. He instantly opened fire thus sacrificing his own life to save his team.

As the Commander Wandres' yeoman I typed up a recommendation for the Navy Cross. The recommendation resulted in the posthumous award of a Silver Star. I was so impressed by Billy Machen's selfless act and dedication to his team that I put in a special request chit to crew on their Mike boat.

Jim Dickson

From: Franklin Anderson
To Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:18 AM
Subject: Fw: 7 OCT 66 - This Date in Vietnam History

This is the sequel to the previous message that Jim Dickson sent---It is interesting to note that the SEALS on the Mighty Moe accounted for approximately 58 KIA and untold wounded and broke the VC attempt to invade Nha Be.

The follow on is that We lost Bill Pachacek and Bob Henry in the near past dying prematurely from the wounds received. "Herb Ruth was later commissioned and went into law enforcement in Utah. He passed away quite some time ago of a Heart Attack---

This group of Valiant men are fading rapidly-- CWO Moscone passed away, and it was "suspected" that Agent Orange was the culprit.

Franklin Anderson

This email was cleaned by email Stripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm

BMC William L. “Boats” Fischer U.S. Navy Ret. Passed away in his sleep September 4, 2008. Boats had been in declining health for a few years. Boats Fischer was a great person you would not have found a nicer shipmate and friend. He enjoyed being a MRFA member and the camaraderie that he shared with all the Army and Navy members he met . He could take a joke and give back as good as he received he will be missed by all hands Army and Navy a like.

Boats served as a Boat Captain on PBR-97 River Section 532 7/66-7/67 out of My Tho. Boats will have his ashes buried at sea by the U S Navy..

You may contact the family @ Margaret Fischer 87-165 St Johns Rd. Waianae, HI. 96792-3258 (808)- 668-7494. May our brother rest in peace and find peace

Albert Moore

A Sailors Prayer

"The Lord is my pilot, I shall not go adrift; He lighteth my passage across dark channels; He steereth me through the deep waters, He keepeth my log. He guideth me by the evening star for my safety's sake. Yea, though I sail mid the thunders and tempest of life, I shall fear no peril for Thou art with me. The vastness of thy sea upholds me. Surely fair winds and safe harbors shall be found all the days of my life; And I shall moor, fast, and secure, forever Amen.

Steve Gardner and Zero Ponsdorf

I took the attached photos while a crew member aboard the USS Spinax (SS-489) about July or August 1965. We were doing Seal insertion/extraction training on San Clemente Island (off San Diego ) in prep for deployment to the Gulf of Tonkin . Thought perhaps you might get them to a website where other team members might be able to identify the individuals.

The trusty group at the 50 Cal was our newly minted gun crew. In one, the CO was taking his turn. We carried three 50’s and had two bridge mounts and two aft on the cigarette deck where that pic was taken. As I remember there were a couple of hundred boxes of ammo stored in what used to be the after torpedo room. I believe we were one of the last submarines that could announce, “Man battle stations surface.”

I remember a couple of things about this operation. One was being on sonar and helping vector in the returning team who had a pinger on the collapsible rubber boat. Most important was taking care of the team’s nourishment. Those guys ate a month’s supply of our steak and lobster in just one week!

Please scroll to the bottom of this table and read the bottom email first in order to get the jest of their conversations. I did not alter their composition. The Webmaster: docrio45 [at] gmail.com

From: Kiet Nguyen
To: bill_laurie [at] yahoo.com ; Guy Arrans ; bayacresfarm1 [at] peoplepc.com ; 'Charles Benninghoff (Charles Benninghoff)' ; Charles Benninghoff ; Sam Bishop ; Larry Bissonnette ; 'William W. Cater' ; WW Cater ; Cooper, Clarence ; dpajax@hotmail.com ; Fanton, Red Walt ; Ferguson, Kirk ; Glen Fry ; Dick Godbehere ; Keeffe, Dennis ; Martin, Cecil ; McPHERSON, HARLAN ; Albert Ocanas ; President@tf116.org ; Doc Riojas ; Dennis Scully ; SLAY, GLEN ; Herb Stephan ; Watson, Steve ; Weatherall, Larry ; Westling, Chaplain Lester ; Mike Wiley ; Bill Wood ; YUSI, FRANK ** ; Ken Delfino ; Ralph Christopher
Cc: Hai Tran
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: 31 years.... (webmaster)Kiet states Ralph CHristopher's statements are not all TRUE !

Gentlemen,

I must respond and making clear to Ralph Christopher's email because his statement was wrong so far from the fact as I was a part of that BAT-21's rescue operation.

Even it was over 36 years from April 1972. I have never forgot that operation with US Navy SEALs Lt. Thomas R. Norris and we were at the last part to bring home Lt. Col. Hambleton. The first part it was entire Sea Commandos team did work with Tommy and Lt. Col. Anderson for recoveried 1st Lt. Mark Clark pilot.

Then our team had suffered by the NVA's shelling as Lt. Col. Anderson and my Vietnamese Commando's chief team were wounded. You remember I was assigned to the Sea Commandos unit at that time. Indeed I was graduated (May 1970) from the LDNN in Cam Ranh Bay under US. Navy SEAL and Vietnamese SEAL trainers . So, I was only one who came from LDNN and the rest of my team those whom were belong to the Sea Commandos unit.

You said: Kiet was accompanied by several other LDNNs who backed out of the mission refusing to go out to the river to meet Hambleton and Kiet said he was pissed and had to go alone to the river so Hambleton would come out of the jungle, which he did once he saw Kiet.

Then joined Norris who was in the trees undercover. No, It is not truth. Ralph, you have a little bit imagine on this story while I was in Bellingham with you and some other men who came from Brown River Patrol vets for that event.

I would remind you and the camera man (I can't remember his name) about you guys were promised me that after the interview you will send me the copy of that part. But two of you never make it.

If you have that tape recorded by the camera man you should know what I am saying. Bring it up Ralph to tell the truth of your story (Not mine.)

Gentlemen, I appreciate all of you for recalling this history document of the Vietnam's war.

Again, I must Thanks all of you for been there and done that to stop the waves of communism in South East Asia.

God bless you all.

Kiet Nguyen LDNN

--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Ralph Christopher <rwchristopher@cox.net> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Christopher" <rwchristopher [at] cox.net>
To: <bill_laurie [at] yahoo.com>; "Guy Arrans" <shark17 [at] sbcglobal.net>;
Cc: "Hai Tran" <hai.tran18 [at] gmail.com>; "Kiet Nguyen" <ktnguyen95 [at] yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009
Subject: Re: 31 years....

I had the honor of interviewing Nguyen Van Kiet a couple of years ago in Bellingham and David Lowrence of the museum filmed it and the DVD is at BUMM. If I remember correctly, Kiet was accompanied by several other LDNNs who backed out of the mission refusing to go out to the river to meet Hambleton and Kiet said he was pissed and had to go alone to the river so Hambleton would come out of the jungle, which he did once he saw Kiet. Then joined Norris who was in the trees undercover. Unlike the film they were air lifted out. There were no friendly patrol boats in Laos, which is where I believe they were. Kiet said Norris called him later and informed him he had put him in for the CMH but they gave him the Navy Cross, believe the only South Vietnamese to be awarded one. He lives in Seattle and had just gotten married and brought his wife. We spoke for over a hour with his broken English and my bad Vietnamese.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Laurie" <bill_laurie [at] yahoo.com>
To: "Guy Arrans" <shark17 [at] sbcglobal.net>;
Cc: "Hai Tran" <hai.tran18 [at] gmail.com>; "Kiet Nguyen" <ktnguyen95 [at] yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009
Subject: Re: 31 years....

Ken, well-written piece. No way anyone with any brains or integrity can -or want to- 'let it go.' No damn way. Nice you mentioned Nguyen Van Kiet, whose role in rescue of LTC Hambleton never got coverage it should have. Here's a couple of other Viet Namese who should be well known...and would be in a sane, mature, intelligent society, which appears to be lacking:

Nguyen Quy An:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Quy_An

http://www.jsonline.com/news/obituaries/29447804.html
Tran Van Bay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tran_Van_Bay

Bill

On Fri, 1/30/09, Ken Delfino <philippepinuts@colfaxnet.com> wrote:

From: Ken Delfino <philippepinuts [at] colfaxnet.com>
Subject: 31 years....
To: "Guy Arrans" <shark17 [at] sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "Hai Tran" <hai.tran18 [at] gmail.com>, "Kiet Nguyen" <ktnguyen95 [at] yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, January 30, 2009,
Brothers of the Brown Water Navy:

0430 UTC:

At this exact moment 31 years ago, the PBRs of River Divisions 531, 532 and 533 had been scrambled not only after the monthly mortar visits from the Viet Cong, but also after hearing accompanying small arms automatic fire within the city limits! Similar occurrences were taking place against our Navy brothers in Can Tho, Long Xuyen, Chau Doc, Binh Thuy, Nha Be, Sa Dec, Hue and Vinh Long, which was overrun.

With our Mobile Riverine Force to the west, 7th ARVN Division to the north, 32nd VN Ranger Bn to the east, the VNN and our SEAL teams were doing what they needed to do to ensure that none of the 3 battalions of Viet Cong got close enough to damage or overrun our headquarters. As it was, in My Tho there were VC bodies at the "Y"...about five blocks from the Khach-San Victory HDQ and Carter Billet.

Everyone has their memories of that particular morning...whether that morning is more impressive than any of the others during our tours of duty is up to each individual. We all had fires to put out, casualties to transport, attacks to counter and when night came, we hoped that we had enough adrenaline left to stay awake through the night.

That was not problem though with Spooky, Seawolves and Gunslingers showering the ground with red tracers where green tracers rose to find them. Everyone cat-napped, but no one really slept. Actions of that week...and many other actions is what has kept our bond of camaraderie strong over the years. Someone once said that "the bond of friendship forged in combat is second only to the bond between a mother and child".

Over the years I have met many of our fellow veterans who wore Navy blue, Army green, Air Force blue, Coast Guard white and the Globe and Anchor who also wear that Yellow-Green-Red ribbon that ties us all together. Over the years I have met younger warriors, enlisted and officers, who do not wear that ribbon, but who have told me that "we did the job necessary in the long run...stemming the tide of communism from spreading beyond the shores of Southeast Asia" which helped lead to the eventual fall of the Soviet Union.

I am very proud to read of the success of those South Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian allies who were able to escape and make it here...and become citizens and successful business owners contributing to our society. I am even more proud of their children who understand what it was like to live under the fear that accompanies war and have joined our military and proudly serve today.

I do want to point out that during the rescue of LCOL Iceal Hambleton, portrayed by Gene Hackman in Bat 21, one key person's role in that rescue was not emphasized enough in my opinion. I salute Petty Officer Kiet Nguyen, LDNN (SEAL), South Vietnamese Navy for his heroic actions with LT Tom Norris in that rescue operation. Because he is Vietnamese, he was not awarded the Medal of Honor as LT Norris was, but he was awarded our Navy Cross.

This evening at dinner I'll raise my glass in a toast to my brothers-in-arms and to the 58, 260 Killed In Action and the 1,740 who are still Missing In Action. I've been told I should "let it go" by people who do not understand...but no way in hell will that happen...not until my last breath...or until all of our men are accounted for...whichever comes first. God Bless America for we are...One Nation Under God!

Ken Delfino, United States Navy (ret)
River Division 533,
TF-116 (PBRs)

10/66-7/68

This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm

Emails about the HX. of SEAL STAB boat

----- Original Message -----
From: James and Cheryl GRAY
To: rstonercrd21 [at\ msn.com
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Bob, You were good to share the Hawkins photos with me, please accept these and pass on to him. You might want to pass theses on to Dan, he hasn't got the Hawkins stuff up yet, been very busy on Boat. Happy Memorial Day, V/R Jim G.

From: Robert Stoner [mailto:RStonerCRD21 [at] msn.com] Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:13 PM To: Bill Moreo; Blas Mojica; Bob Rieve; Dan Withers; Erasmo "Doc" Riojas; Tom Hawkins; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret); Ty Zellers; Tom Hawkins; Steve Thomas; Ralph Christopher; Norm Olson; Kerry Ruth; John Woody; james s. thomas Subject: Fw: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967
Guys,
I just got some really great photos from Jim Gray that show the first SEAL Team Assault Boats (STAB) brought to RVN by ST-2 in 1967. MST and ST used them for about 15 months before they were worn out and replaced by the LSSC.
Note that these are LIFE magazine photos! I wonder how LIFE was able to publish them because so much of the MST/SEAL/UDT operations were classified. I've contacted Jim to see if he can supply some additional information. Please post and circulate with your MST/SEAL-2 guys that were in RVN in 1967 and 1968.

Bob Stoner

Original Message -----
From: James and Cheryl GRAY
To: rstonercrd21@msn.com
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Bob, You were good to share the Hawkins photos with me, please accept these and pass on to him. You might want to pass theses on to Dan, he hasn't got the Hawkins stuff up yet, been very busy on Boat. Happy Memorial Day, V/R Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: John Woody

To: 'Robert Stoner' ; 'Bill Moreo' ; 'Blas Mojica' ; 'Bob Rieve' ; 'Dan Withers' ; 'Erasmo "Doc" Riojas' ; 'Tom Hawkins' ; 'CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret)' ; 'Ty Zellers' ; 'Tom Hawkins' ; 'Steve Thomas' ; 'Ralph Christopher' ; 'Norm Olson' ; 'Kerry Ruth' ; 'james s. thomas'
Cc: John Woody
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967
Bob,
Good photos of the STABS as we knew them.

I have found several B&W photos of the Binh Thuy Tri hulled STAB in the '68 time frame. I will attempt to get them digitized and sent to you.

The group also has several photos of the Binh Thuy LCPL with the mini-gun installed. This is one of the two mini-guns I carried to Vietnam in my personal luggage when I relieved as the third OIC MST2. The other one was installed on the MST2 heavy Mike boat.
Remember that correspondents were always riding with us. They just took the photos and used them.

John W.

From: Robert Stoner [mailto:RStonerCRD21 [at] msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:44 AM
To: John Woody Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Good information, John.

Do you remember how many of the PowerCat STABs made it to RVN and which dets used them? I've gotten conflicting numbers on how many were built by ST-2. One source says 3 and one 4. One thing agreed upon is one STAB never made it from LCrk. It was being airlifted by a CH-46 and the slings broke. That STAB landed in a base parking lot and killed a car.

These are two photos from Tom Hawkins at NSWF taken during the airlift trials.
Above photo: STAB pickup.

Below photo: STAB getaway.

The survivors were sent to RVN, but there's where memories get hazy. Were two or three boats used there? All the people who were associated with the STAB conversions of the PowerCat boats have passed away.

By the way, Danny Leger is the son of Ray Leger who owned PowerCat Boats. Danny has a website dedicated to his father's boats that were so much a part of his life. He was very surprised to know that several of the PowerCat boats were converted by ST-2 and subsequently used in action in RVN. I've posted photos to him and he's put them on his site. Apparently, the PowerCat boat in its various models has a sort of cult status among boaters. It's interesting how things sort themselves out.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: John Woody
To: 'Robert Stoner'
Cc: John Woody
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967
Bob,

Before MST 2 and MST 3 were combined by me, MST 2 had two. One with me and the LCPL at Binh Thuy and one with the Mike boat.
There must have been three in country. The third was at MST 3. I do not remember how the engines were divided up. I had two new 100 hp Mercs at Binh Thuy.
John W.

Original Message -----
From: Comcast (via vqME)
To: Robert Stoner ; Bill Moreo ; Blas Mojica ; Bob Rieve ; Dan Withers ; Erasmo "Doc" Riojas ; Tom Hawkins ; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret) ; Ty Zellers ; Steve Thomas ; Ralph Christopher ; Kerry Ruth ; John Woody ; james s. thomas Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

An Observation: The two STABS were designed and built by Jack Macione and brought in country by SEAL Team TWO. The personnel in the photos are from SEAL Team ONE. Just curious....perhaps someone can explain this.

Norm Olson

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Stoner
To: Norm Olson
Cc: Ty Zellers ; Erasmo "Doc" Riojas ; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret) ; Tom Hawkins ; John Woody ; Jim Gray Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:42 AM
Subject: Fw: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

All,

Norm Olson asked why the two STABs in Jim Gray's recent photos showed ST-1 folks and not ST-2. John Woody who was the MST OIC at Binh Thuy during this time has a possible explanation: Two STABs were assigned to MST-2 at Binh Thuy (ST-1 was there); MST-3 at Nha Be had the other STAB and ST-2 was there based on the following timeline.

According to our MST/SEAL rouster at www.warboats.org, MST-3 was located at Nha Be from 16 Oct 1967 until combined with MST-2 in 1968 (exact date unknown). Foxtrot Platoon, ST-1 was a Nha Be from August 1967 to February 1968. Third Platoon, ST-2 was at Nha Be from June 1968 to December 1968. Not known is whether an ST-1 or ST-2 platoon was at Nha Be during the February to June 1968 period. Whatever information you may have for this time would be appreciated.

Regards, Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Comcast (via vqME)
To: John Woody ; 'Robert Stoner'
Cc: 'Ty Zellers' ; 'Erasmo "Doc" Riojas' ; 'CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret)' ; 'Tom Hawkins' ; 'Jim Gray' ; John Woody
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

To all, Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of the deployment of the STABs to Vietnam.

Norm Olson

Original Message -----
From: John Woody
To: 'Robert Stoner' ; 'Norm Olson' Cc: 'Ty Zellers' ; 'Erasmo "Doc" Riojas' ; 'CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret)' ; 'Tom Hawkins' ; 'Jim Gray' ; John Woody
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:28 AM Subject:
RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Bob,

The combination of MST 2 and MST 3 took place during or right after Tet ’68. Capt Gray ordered me to combine the two units. I sent a “unless otherwise directed” msg to BSU One who passed it on to SpecWar about the combination.

John W.

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Stoner
To: Bill Moreo ; Blas Mojica ; Bob Rieve ; Dan Withers ; Erasmo "Doc" Riojas ; Tom Hawkins ; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret) ; Ty Zellers ; Steve Thomas ; Ralph Christopher ; Kerry Ruth ; John Woody ; james s. thomas ; Comcast (via vqME)
Cc: Jim Gray Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Hello, Norm.

I've got a inquiry to Jim Gray to find out if he knows any details about these photos. Also John Woody (Gamewardens) worked with these boats during his tour in RVN -- as I recall he bought over six spare engines for them when he deployed. Which MST detachments operated these STABs and where they operated from is an on-going research project. Do any of you or your contacts have any operational experience with these first STABs?

Here are a couple of photos taken during airlift trials of the STAB at LCrk. On one lift, the slings failed and the airlift trials boat dropped into a parking lot and killed a car. That boat didn't go to RVN. These photos are courtesy of Tom Hawkins at NSWF.

The STAB boats were conversions of the PowerCat Model 23T. The PowerCat company was founded by Ray Leger after WW2 who designed and built both double and tri-hull power boats. PowerCat had both outboard and inboard engine designs. Ray was into racing and teamed with Mercury on the power boat racing circuit.

Ray's company started with wooden designs and then gradually went to fiberglass. There was a time when both wood and fiberglass boats were being made at the same time, but fiberglass won out in the end. The company started on the West Coast, but moved to Texas after its facilities were destroyed by a fire. Danny Leger, Ray's son, has a website dedicated to the PowerCat boats his father built. Danny was very surprised to learn about the SEALs using modified PowerCat boats in RVN.

Regards to all, Bob -----

----- Original Message -----
From: wshark79[at]aol.com
To: jimthomas07[at]comcast.net ; RSTONERCRD21[at]msn.com ; taftchamber-randy[at]bak.rr.com ; blasmojica[at]yahoo.com ; neptune590[at]netzero.com ; jwoody[at]texas.net ; ichasethesun[at]yahoo.com ; docrio45[at]gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Fwd: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

BOB, AS I SAID BEFORE,THE STAB I SAW IN NHA-BE IN OCT "67" WAS USED BY SEAL TEAM-1,THIS MAY BE THE ONE THAT JIM GRAY HAS REFERRED TO AS DAMAGED. IT WAS LYING UPSIDE DOWN ON THE BEACH NEXT TO THE PIER'S AT NHA-BE RIVERINE BASE,I REMEMBER IT HAD NO MOTORS ON IT,WHEN I ARRIVED AT NHA-BE WE WERE USEING BOSTON WHALER"S OFF OF THE MIKE BOAT FOR INSERTIONS AND EXTRACTIONS FOR SEAL TEAM-1 ,LATER ON WE EMBARKED SEAL TEAM-2 AT NHA-BE, I BELIEVE EARLY "68". I NEVER REALLY TOOK A CLOSE LOOK AT THE STAB AS I TOOK THE MST -TEAM WORD FOR IT THAT IT WAS NOT SERVICEABLE.

BILL MOREO

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Stoner <RStonerCRD21[at]msn.com>
To: wshark79[at]aol.com
Cc: neptune590[at]netzero.com; james s. thomas <jimthomas07[at]comcast.net>; Jim Gray <jgrayptf24[at]msn.com>
Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 4:27 pm
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Hello, guys.

Well, that answers one question about what happened to one of the STABs.

Jim Gray, said that another STAB had a hull failure while underway and the crew had to be taken off before it sank. Can you confirm? Do you have any commo with other STAB users? I copied Jim Thomas as he's our resident alumni director. He may have contacts with some of the operators.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Rapp <neptune590[at]netzero.com>
To: wshark79[at]aol.com
Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:02 am
Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Bill,

The ambush was when I was actually in Binh Thuy and we were operating down on the South China Sea just north of the Bassac River.

The STAB was from Binh Thuy / Can Tho, and the IBS and then the Whaler replaced the STAB after its destruction on the attempted helo recovery…

I drove the IBS and Whaler on later operations.

Pretty funny seeing that piece of junk fall from the sky and shatter into a million pieces. By the way – that was the third and final sinking of that damn boat. Two other near sinkings were up on the Bassac River (West of Binh Thuy), of which one of the near sinkings we (the LCPL) pulled up along the STAB – and pulled the squad out of the rapidly sinking STAB onto the LCPL I can’t remember which platoon was there, but, it’s possible that Larry Bailey might have been on that operation…

On the South China Sea operation of which there were a few over my tours in the Delta,,, anyway - I think Seaman Dennis Thompson may have been the insertion driver on the op. but I could be wrong. I drove the LCPL form Bin Thuy on that particular operation…

I am still not clear when the first LSSC’s you guys worked on came into theater?

Did we get one in Binh Thuy before I returned to the states, and before I returned to My Tho in 1968?

Those operations you and I were on were during my My Tho tour in 1968…

Time really creates some confusion on certain things!!!

YBIA - John

John R. Rapp - Marine Safety Deputy Washtenaw County Sheriff
neptune590[at]netzero.com

From: wshark79[at]aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:57 AM
To: neptune590[at]netzero.net; RSTONERCRD21[at]msn.com; taftchamber-randy[at]bak.rr.com
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

SORRY JOHN, I FORGOT ABOUT OUR OPS DOWN IN MY-THO, I REMEMBER NOW THE STAB IN MY-THO,I NEVER PULLED AND OP WITH ONE ,BUT I HAVE SEEN THEM DOWN THERE AND I DO REMEMBER THE AMBUSH WHERE YOU GUYS GOT SHOT UP, SO YOU WHERE THERE, WHEN WE STARTED USEING WHALERS, AFTER YOU LOST YOUR STAB? WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH THE WHALER IN THAT IT HAD A LOW FREE-BOARD, FULLY LOADED WITH A SIX-SEVEN MAN FIRE TEAM PLUS TWO MAN CREW. IT WAS NOT VERY SEAWORTHY UNLESS WE WERE AT HIGH SPEED, AT LOW SPEED PBR'S WAKE WOULD SWAMP US IF WE WERE NOT QUICK ENOUGH TO PUT THE BOW INTO THE WAKE, I KNOW OF AT LEAST TWO TIMES THEY CAPSIZED DUE TO PBR'S WAKES, AND WE LOST 1 SEAL DUE TO DROWNING.

YBIA BILL

-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Rapp <neptune590[at]netzero.com>
To: wshark79[at]aol.com Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 9:33 am
Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967 Bill,

I too drove a Boston Whaler on many operations after the STAB was destroyed…

We also used the IBS for a few operations until the Whaler was ready for ops.

It was one of the Whalers I was on when we were ambushed on insertion; wounding Davey Sutherland and Jerry Stamey. The steering was shot out, and the top of the throttle control was shot off as well. We continued the insertion by me operating the throttle stub, and Mckendrick providing steering control by wrapping his arms around the motor.

I believe it was Lt. Bishop / Bravo squad on my Whaler; Lt. Fred Trani was with the Alpha squad which I had inserted approximately an hour before into the same A/O on the beach…

The Whaler was a better small boat than the STAB, as it could withstand battle damage, maintain sea-worthiness in high seas, and still float (unlike the STAB). The STAB may have been fast, had two engines, and light armor, but, it was undependable in that any wave over the stern would sent the damn vessel down stern first with only the bow sticking up out of the water.

The last STAB operation I remember; we were inserting out on the South China Sea and the STAB took water over the stern on insertion. The vessel was left floating near the beach, eventually becoming beached on the shore, while the platoon continued on the planned operation.

The LCPL under Lt. Thompson's command provided offshore security over night, occasionally firing the .50 caliber in short bursts over the hull, and from time to time lobbing 60mm mortar rounds into the tree line.

After the completion of the operation the next day, the platoon set up a defensive perimeter inside the tree line on the beach.

The next day a helicopter recovery was attempted. The copter came in and hovered over the wreck while the vessel was rigged for the attempted lift. The STAB was rigged, lift started, altitude was gained as the flight path proceeded towards the open water, the STAB rigging let go and the boat crashed into the South China Sea – breaking into thousands of pieces.

With the STAB totally destroyed, two slicks arrived a short time later and extracted the platoon from the beach… End of operation!!!

John R. Rapp - Marine Safety Deputy Washtenaw County Sheriff
neptune590[at] netzero.com

From: wshark79[at] aol.com [mailto:wshark79[at] aol.com]
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:55 AM
To: RSTONERCRD21[at] msn.com; taftchamber-randy[at] bak.rr.com; neptune590[at] netzero.com; ichasethesun[at] yahoo.com

Subject: Fwd: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

BOB, THE ONLY STAB I REMEMBER WAS BEACHED UPSIDE DOWN IN NHA-BE, AND I WAS TOLD THE TEAMS PREFERRED THE BOSTON WHALERS THAT MYSELF AND RANDY MILLER, RICK SHEPARD DROVE THROUGH THE 67-68 TIME FRAME.

BILL MOREO

-----Original Message-----
From: doc rio <docrio45 [at] gmail.com>
To: Robert Stoner <RStonerCRD21[at] msn.com>; Bill Moreo <wshark79[at] aol.com>; Blas Mojica <blasmojica[at] yahoo.com>; Bob Rieve <sealoa[at] earthlink.net>; Dan Withers <dwithers[at] rodaxwireless.com>; Tom Hawkins <tomhawkins[at] cox.net>; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret) <udtsealm[at] bellsouth.net>; Ty Zellers <tyzellers [at] comcast.net>; Steve Thomas <Daiuymap[at] aol.com>; Ralph Christopher <rwchristopher[at] cox.net>; Kerry Ruth <Kerry.Ruth[at] msn.com>; John Woody &l t;jwoody[at] texas.net>; james s. thomas <jimthomas07[at] comcast.net>; Comcast (via vqME) <trident33@comcast.net>
Cc: Jim Gray <jgrayptf24@msn.com>
Sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 9:57 pm

Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Thanks to all of you for keeping me informed about our origional STAB. We, the 7th platoon, turned one upside down in the south china sea back in 1967. Our LDNN lost a foot, and Jack Rowell saved his head by pushing the screw with his M-16. The weapon was a total loss, but Jack did not get one scratch.

We referred to it as boat by Mattell, same as the M-16, rifle by Mattell. Both did the job in that primitive era of SEALs at war, or whatever it is called.

Semper Fi ! HooYah

Erasmo Doc Riojas; SEAL Corpsman (Ret)

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Stoner
To: Erasmo "Doc" Riojas
Cc: Bob Rieve ; Frank Anderson ; Frank Toms ; Jack Frost ; Norm Olson ; CAPT Michael R. Howard, USN (Ret) ; Tom Hawkins ; Ty Zellers ; Jim Gray ; Roger Clapp ; John Woody
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Naval Special Operators in RVN, 1966-1968

All,

As you can see from the dialog I've been having with various folks, I've been investigating the use of the first STAB boats in RVN during 1967. However, this has led to another problem: who was there and where and when.

I'm trying to get a handle on what MST, SEAL (and UDT) outfits were deployed from the 1966 to 1968 time frame. At our site www.warboats.org under Boat Support Units > Mobile Support Team TWO > Roster MST/SEALs incomplete roster of where people were from 1966-1971. The later years are getting filled-in, but the early years are a real mess as far as who was deployed and where they were at is concerned.

I'd ask you all to search your memory banks and any associations you have and any files you may have retained to help fill-in the gaps. Thanks to all in advance. Your help on this project will be greatly appreciated.

Also, when you visit the warboats.org site and notice any misspelled names or incomplete information, please let me know ASAP. It is our intent to make this MST/SEAL/UDT roster as complete as possible for historic value. Only the people who were actually there can help at this point because much of those early years' records have been destroyed.

That's why I'm appealing to the "human records" who made the history.

Regards, Robert H. Stoner, GMCM (SW) (Ret)

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Lynch

To: 'Bill Langley'

Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:08 AM

Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Hello all you old guys,

I was in SEAL Team Two 10^th Platoon in My Tho from April to October 1968 and we didn’t have any LCSR’s there at that time. We only had the ole Catamaran hull with two 125 HP Mercury engines at that time. Now, we did have the Mike boat Battleship as well. We inherited these from Doc Rio, Mike Boynton, Bob Gallagher’s platoon.

The Mike boat had a deck big enough to land a helo if needed, 5 50 cals, 106 recoiless, and the mini gun. We use to come back at 3 or 4 in the morning and drill holes in the boat so it could drain and then at 2 or 3 in the afternoon we would fill the holes with fiberglass resin so it would be good to go in the evening again.

I did that with Pierre Bertz. When the boat finally gave out and just wasn’t making it Rudy Boesch and Al Quist our platoon officer took me to Dong Tang and we borrowed a 16 foot Whaler from the Army but didn’t ask or tell them we were going to use one of their 20 or so Whalers. By the way, we did this op in broad day light, with and Army guy untying me to test the boat engine.

They thought I was from and maintenance activity. We got back to My Tho pulled it out of the water, pulled the big Johnson off it and painted it camo colors, and some Army guys came up and looked at it and said, nope that’s not our boat. We put one of our Mercury's on it and that’s what we operated until we left country in October.

I think the LCSR’s came shortly after we left in October.

Great memories of how to fight a war!

Jack Lynch

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jack Lynch

To: 'doc rio'

Cc: 'Robert Stoner'

Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:45 PM

Subject: PASS THIS ON TO : Jack Lynch, President of UDT SEAL Assn, Little Creek Virginia

Your right Bob, and Rio your right to. The LCSR never made it over there and would not have done well with those two big turbo jet engines in them. And what I meant to put down was LSSC vs the LCSR in my remarks below. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Doc Rio, Thanks for sending Dick Cyrus email. He looks good. Forward this to him if you would. Hope all is well with him and wondered where he disappeared to. Dick, drop me a line as some of your class mates are looking for you.

Jack

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Stoner
To: helen Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Was this ST-2, 7th Platoon when you were there? What records we have of ST-2 involvement don't start before 1968. Anything you could tell us about your guys would be appreciated. Was ST-2 assigned to the My Tho op area at this time?

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Doc Riojas
To: Robert Stoner
Cc: Larry Bailey ; richard marcinko Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

I forgot; yes we relieved an ST-2 SEAL platoon in MyTho. Richard Marcinko and Larry Bailey's platoon were also in MyTho, i'll make them CC's and see if they answer you.

Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bailey
To: Doc Riojas ; Robert Stoner
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

A couple of corrections:

Rick was in the My Tho platoon, but it was Fred Kochey's platoon. Rick was assistant platoon commander. My platoon was in Can Tho.

I was also aboard a STAB when it went down by the stern in the Bassac River. It was not due to hull problems, however, and it didn't actually sink. It just flipped. I know. I was the last guy to be recovered!

There was no STAB in Nha Be in 1967, as those craft were unique to ST-2. It is possible that ST-2 transferred one of them to Nha Be.

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Miller, Taft Chamber
To: jimthomas07@comcast.net ; RSTONERCRD21 [at] msn.com ; blasmojica [at] yahoo.com ; neptune590 [at] netzero.com ; jwoody [at] texas.net ; ichasethesun [at] yahoo.com ; docrio45 [at] gmail.com ; wshark79 [at] aol.com Cc: jgrayptf24 [at] msn.com ; dwithers [at] rodaxwireless.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Hi all,

I was with MST-3 at Nha Be from Oct 67 to Apr 68 but don't remember a Stab being there. I can tell you as a boat driver that the Boston Whaler floats upside down just fine from first hand experience. We were on a night op and pulled up behind a PBR. I was having engine problems and the order was given to move out.

There was a PBR, Bill Moreo in the other Whaler, the other PBR and myself and my gunner. The 2nd PBR hit the throttle and the wash from the jet pump swamped my boat and we overturned and we went straight to the bottom of the river. I pulled the lanyard of my life vest and popped up along side the whaler, my gunner popped up underneath.

We were floating away from where the other boats were heading. We got the boat ashore and waited for them to come back for us. We tied the whaler up to a PBR and towed it back to Nha Be. The drivers seat came loose and was dragging underneath and the engine was still attached. We lost the fuel tanks and battery, an M-60, M-16, M-79, and radio. But she still floated flat even with the engine attached. When ever we'd get to much water in the boat we'd get out in the middle of the channel and get the speed up and pull the plug in the bottom to suck the water out.

We did that alot due to when we were on the beach and waves from other boats crashed over the side or rear of the boat. I have fond memories of the Boston Whaler and its capabilities. We could get 6 Seals on board with the two of us and get the boat up on plane. The Chrysler 105 engine had plenty of power but it required special oil/gas mixture and we ran out of the oil. Regular oil wouldn't due as I blew up an engine because of over heating. If I were to buy a boat my first choice would be a Boston Whaler.

Randy 'Bear' Miller

Original Message -----
From: Erasmo "Doc" Riojas
To: Randy Miller, Taft Chamber; jimthomas07 [at] comcast.net ; RSTONERCRD21 [at] msn.com ; blasmojica [at] yahoo.com ; neptune590 [at] netzero.com ; jwoody [at] texas.net ; ichasethesun [at] yahoo.com ; docrio45 [at] gmail.com ; wshark79 [at] aol.com Cc: jgrayptf24 [at] msn.com ; dwithers [at] rodaxwireless.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009
Subject: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967

Wow!

YES!

we quit using the Boston Whaler during my first tour in MyTho when we had to insert more than four men.

We got swamped by a PBR, same as you did and damn near lost one SEAL, his name is Roy Dean Matthews. The driver had no problems, he was only wearing swim trunks.

He refused to let his Stoner go and struggled in the bottom mud to allow his life jacket to bring him up to the surface.

I dropped my M-16 and much later when the tide was down was found by a district chief (VN). We went back the next morning to dive for the weapons, we only recovered one Stoner.

Our LT Peterson was setting up an OP with that villiage chief and he saw my weapon. My M-16 was painted green with brown spots and the sling was replaced with a heavy nylon line. It was impossible to see another one like it !

"LT" asked him to trade it for his own. The Chief said it was a VC weapon and refused to trade it.

We wanted it because we were testing some chrome barrels from COlt Arms in CONN. and it had more rifling the the standard ones. We were supposed to return those barrels when we returned to CONUS.

We never again used the Boston Whaler for Ops. Good for water skiing, no?

We had a Mattell STAB with us while in MyTho 1967-68 and of course the Mike boat that towed it to our Op areas.

Your story will be on my web page www.sealtwo.org/ zero02.htm

Doc Rio

The "Green Ship" Fleet in Vietnam consisted of a number of WWII LST's which were converted

into APB's. Self-propelled barracks ships and ARL's converted into small boat repair ships.

Used on the brown waters of the Mekong Delta. By Albert B. Moore,

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bailey To: Robert Stoner
Cc: Doc Rio
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Help for the MST/SEAL/UDT roster at the warboats.org site

Bob,

Here are the members of ST-2 Det Alpha 1967. We were at Binh Thuy.

Squad Alpha: OIC: LT Larry Bailey; Leading CPO: ETC: Leonard Waugh Squad members: GMG2 Harry Mattingly; PO2 Charles Detmer; PO2 Kenneth Estok

Squad Bravo: OIC: LT Bob Gormly; Leading CPO: BMC J. P. Tolison Squad members: CPO Robert Gallagher (note: Bob may have been leading CPO, vice J.P. Tolison);

I don't remember the other guys right now, but I think I can come up with them.

BTW, CAPT Ron Yeaw, USN (Ret.) probably has EVERYTHING you could want. He rescued all the ST-2 records from Vietnam days as they were about to be destroyed. I can put you in touch with him. Ron saved my butt several years ago when the records he had rescued at ST-2 proved that Dick Marcinko was lying about me and the operation he was describing in "Rogue Warrior."

Call me at 252-975-3764, and let's talk about this.

Larry

EMails on Boat Support Unit and SEAL History in the 'nam

Riojas,

Bob Stoner didn't ask me for anything.

My platoon was Third Platoon. My assistant plt. cdr. was Bob Gormly. We were in 'Nam from February to July 1967 and lived in the old barracks in Binh Thuy before the new base was built.

We had a STAB assigned to us, and Second Platoon (in My Tho) had one assigned to them. At first, the boats were driven by SEALs, but later on BSU-1 took them over.

LB

From: Robert Stoner

To: larrywb [at] suddenlink.net
Cc: Erasmo "Doc" Riojas
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 1:35 AM
Subject: Help for the MST/SEAL/UDT roster at the warboats.org site

Dear CAPT Bailey,

Any help the UDT-SEAL Association could give us in updating the rouster for the MST/UDT/SEAL units deployed in RVN from 1966 to 1971 would be greatly appreciated.

I've been beating the bushes for several years with various folks including Norm Olson, Bob Rieve, Mike Howard, Tom Hawkins, and Tom Richards. I've managed to get some bits and pieces of information, but the best I can say is we've still got a lot of gaps -- especially for the years 1966 to 1968. We get more complete information from late 1968 to 1971, but we still have problems.

Roger Clapp, who took over for Don Crawford as historian at SpecWarCom is facing the same problem. Most of the records from the 1966 to 1971 time period have been thrown out and subsequently destroyed. This is true both of the boat squadron files and those of the teams.

What information we do have (and precious little it is) was preserved by GMCM (CC) Jim Gray who did a lot of dumpster diving as these records were purged in the mid-1980's. The records that he retrieved are hit-and-miss at the very best. All that we can do is try to reconstruct things using whatever memories and documents that various folks still have or have preserved in personal papers.

If we don't capture this information now, I am concerned that the history will be lost forever. Whatever help the Association could provide would be a tremendous help. I would be pleased to serve as the point-of-contact for this effort.

The path to the site is:
1. Search for www.warboats.org.
2. Select "Boat Support Units."
3. Select "Mobile Support Team TWO".
4. Select "Roster MS

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Lynch
To: 'Bill Langley'
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: STABs of SEAL Team 2 in 1967 Hello all you old guys,

I was in SEAL Team Two 10th Platoon in My Tho from April to October 1968 and we didn’t have any LCSR’s there at that time. We only had the ole Catamaran hull with two 125 HP Mercury engines at that time. Now, we did have the Mike boat Battleship as well. We inherited these from Doc Rio, Mike Boynton, Bob Gallagher’s platoon.

The Mike boat had a deck big enough to land a helo if needed, 5 50 cals, 106 recoiless, and the mini gun. We use to come back at 3 or 4 in the morning and drill holes in the boat so it could drain and then at 2 or 3 in the afternoon we would fill the holes with fiberglass resin so it would be good to go in the evening again.

I did that with Pierre Bertz. When the boat finally gave out and just wasn’t making it Rudy Boesch and Al Quist our platoon officer took me to Dong Tang and we borrowed a 16 foot Whaler from the Army but didn’t ask or tell them we were going to use one of their 20 or so Whalers. By the way, we did this op in broad day light, with and Army guy untying me to test the boat engine.

They thought I was from and maintenance activity. We got back to My Tho pulled it out of the water, pulled the big Johnson off it and painted it camo colors, and some Army guys came up and looked at it and said, nope that’s not our boat. We put one of our Mercury's on it and that’s what we operated until we left country in October.

I think the LCSR’s came shortly after we left in October.

Great memories of how to fight a war!

Jack Lynch

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Stoner

To: doc rio

Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:46 PM

Subject: Re: MST crowd were certifiable for driving those boats

Doc Riojas,

One day we took a daylight recon of the area behind the SOLID ANCHOR base and went where we'd never gone before in the MSSC. We went west on the Song Cau Lon until we hit a canal that sent us north and then curved around to the east. Several clicks after the turn, we put the bow on the bank (mangrove swamp, about 6 inches underwater) and dropped off the SEAL squad. The first guy's foot that hit the water sent several snakes swimming off in various direction. (You're well aware of the numbers of poisonous vs. non-poisonous snakes in RVN.)

I thought to myself: "OK, Charlie can blow the boat out from underneath me, but I AM NOT GETTING OFF!"

The squad itself went about six to ten feet into the swamp and were lost to our sight.

We waited nuzzled to the bank acting as radio relay while the SEALs mucked about for about two hours. They called us for an extraction in some distance further down the canal. No contact was made. We picked them up with out incident and proceeded east on the canal until we hit a north-south T-intersection. We turned south and came back to the Song Cau Lon on the canal that formed the east side boundary of the base! The whole SOLID ANCHOR base was really a big island surrounded by a large river and canals. I never new that before today's operation. Of, course, if I'd been a Seawolf aircrewman or pilot I would have.

Here's an airborne shot of SOLID ANCHOR about late 1970, early 1971. The Big Muddy going from the LH corner to the top middle is the Song Cau Lon. The Small Muddy off the main river headed toward the center middle of the photo is the canal that we came back on. The base itself is built on the sand pile in the middle of the photo. The small patch of sand next to the big bomb crater opposite the canal that acts as the base boundary is the KCS camp. SEALs Leon Rauch and Bob Searls were advisors to the KCS there. During the time we were there (May-Nov '70), they uncovered two double agents among them. Bob was Leon's brother-in-law. Robert Stoner

We used to joke that SOLID ANCHOR was the world's biggest sandbox because it took over $6 million worth of sand, brought in on huge barges, to make a solid foundation for the base that was built there.

Shortly after we got to SF/SA, we were heading down river to the South China Sea when we came around the bend and two Swift boats were pounding the beach defending a tug that was towing a sand barge. (I don't know if the barge or the tug had been hit.) Anyhow we zoomed-in to help and joined the firefight with our .50s and M60s. About the time we joined the fight, a couple of Seawolves joined-in. Charlie decided that he'd really screwed the pooch and stirred up a hornets' nest. They disengaged and did some very fancy E&E. The Seawolves kept chasing them and we went on our way.

Bob Stoner

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Stoner
To: doc rio
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: MST crowd were certifiable for driving those boats

Doc Rio,

Another SF/SA story. One of the SEAL platoons (GOLF, ST-1) snagged a VC weapons cache (with some very interesting weapons, BTW). For some reason, I wasn't on the op, but I heard about it when the grapevine had it the NILO was checking out the booty and there was a Russian .51 caliber among the capture.

Me being the curious kind of guy -- and never having seen a real Russian DShKM (1938/46) 12.7x108 millimeter heavy machine gun -- I went looking for the cache. It turns out I didn't have to go far because it was all laid out next to the showers and heads between our hooches' back door and the front doors of the three SEAL huts.

Above: A Russian DShKM (1938/46) on an AA tripod.

I came around the side of the MST hut and there was the NILO with a clipboard taking notes. "Excuse me, Lieutenant, they said there was a Russian .51 caliber among the weapons the SEALs captured; where is it?"

The NILO said, with some scorn and condescension, "Over there" and pointed to an American AN-M3 .50 aircraft machine gun. I said, "Ah, that's not a Russian .51 caliber."

The NILO said, "What do you mean? No American .50 looks like that; it has to be a Russian gun." I said, "No it isn't and I will show you why." I went over to the gun, flipped it over on its right side and there, beneath the right ammunition feedway it said: "Machine Gun, Caliber .50, AN-M3, manufactured by Springfield Armory, Springfield, Mass."

The NILO looked surprised (like he got hit in the face with a bucket of ice water). He then said, "What about the other stuff (meaning weapons). I went down the line: "That one's a U.S. M1 carbine with a home-made VC stock; those are three M1 Garand rifles that have been re-barreled to 7.62 NATO with old Mini-gun barrels; those are Chinese copies of the American M2 60mm mortar, the .50 caliber we've already identified; those are Chinese Type 53 copies of the Russian Model 1944 7.62x54R carbine; some Chinese built M22 or Type 56 copies of the Russian AK-47, and a Chinese Type 56 or M21 export version of the Russian SKS-45 carbine."

Above: Chinese Type 53 7.62x54R carbine copy of Russian M1944.

Above: Chinese Type 56 (export M22) 7.62x39 assault rifle copy of Russian AK-47.

Above: Chinese Type 56 (export M21) 7.62x39 carbine copy of Russian SKS-45.

We did it three times and I fine-tuned the beast. I got the headspacing correct (an aircraft gun barrel gets 8 to 12 clicks instead of the 2 to 5 clicks of the ground gun barrel), but the timing gave me fits (that is, when the gun would fire). If the timing is too fast, the gun blows-up; if the timing is too slow, the gun jams. Our gun kept jamming -- until one day.

We took the MSSC down river towards the Gulf of Thailand to show the new Det. BRAVO officer-in-charge the local spots of interest. We got down to Square Bay and turned around to head home. I was lounging on the M2/M3 hybrid, with one arm draped over the top cover, when I saw a blast of mud and a rocket take off towards us. The gun happened to be dead-on the launch point and I hit the butterflies between the spade grips. That .50 let our a roar and the first burst gobbled-up 1/3 of the 426-rounds in the ammo box! I splattered the launch site.

The blast from the .50 woke up the two OICs in front and our boss asked: "What was THAT about?" I said, "Somebody just shot a rocket at us and I splattered them." Our OIC looked at me like I'd lost my mind (he hadn't seen the rocket that had overshot and landed in the river without detonating): "Oh, alright. OK." and went back to conning the boat.

The lack of spare parts (that is, spare barrels) finally retired my M2/M3 hybrid .50 into our ConEx box with other items. However, the one time that the gun was needed to run, it ran like a Singer sewing machine.

Bob

Doc, Here is another Sea Story;

One of the guys I remember from ST-1 across the courtyard at SOLID ANCHOR was SMC Tommie L. Hatchett. Tommie was a was a tall, very well muscled black guy that looked as if the could give the Incredible Hulk some pointers. I was friends with GMG3 Frank Sparks and he clued me in that GOLF platoon had captured a really neat gun from the VC. Being a curious sort, I decided to pay GOLF platoon a visit and check things out for myself.

I walked up the steps and met Tommie just inside the door to the hooch.

"Good morning, Chief. Frank Sparks told me you've captured a really strange weapon. Could you show me where it is?"

"Morning, Gunner. It's over there." (Tommie pointed to a light machine gun resting on its extended bipod.

"Wow, that's a really neat Czech ZB26/30 light machine gun. I wonder where the VC got that gun?"

Most of the other GOLF platoon SEALs overheard the conversation and drifted over to the bench where I was looking over the Czech ZB.

Above: A British Mk 2 Bren gun, caliber .303 British (7.7x57R). The Bren gets its name from Brno (Br), its original manufacturer, and Enfield (en), where it was built in the UK. The very curved magazine was required by the rimmed .303 caliber cartridge; the 7.92x57 cartridge is rimless and allowed for a straighter magazine body. The long bar behind the carrying handle is the barrel change lever.

"Yup. The Czech ZB was the father of the famous British Bren light machine gun of World War 2 fame. When the Germans took over Czechoslovakia, they got the arms factory at Brno. They kept the ZB in production as the ZB26(t) -- the (t) indicated the country of origin as Czechoslovakia -- and these guns saw a lot of service with the German military during the war on both Eastern and Western Fronts. The Czech ZB was made in the same caliber (7.92x57mm) as the Germans were using, so there wasn't a problem with a different caliber."

Above: A Czech ZB30 Light Machine Gun, caliber 7.92x57. The different shape of the bipod feet identify the gun as a ZB30; a ZB26 is shown in the lower photo. Except for minor cosmetic differences, the guns are identical.

Below: The ZB26 and the ZB30 are indistinguishable from a distance; This is a ZB26. The initials ZB indicate the arms factory at Brno (Zbrojovka Brno). Both ZB26 and ZB30 guns have a folding shoulder rest, shown partially extended in this photo. Both ZB26 and ZB30 have quick-change barrels.

"I suspect this Czech ZB was captured from or surrendered by the Germans when the allies kicked them out of France. The French made extensive use of captured German small arms after WW2 and the gun probably was sent to French Indochina to fight the Viet Minh, the predecessors of the VC. Somewhere along the line, the gun was captured by the Viet Minh and passed-on to the VC."

"Did you capture ammo with it? Can I see some rounds?"

By now, the rest of the platoon had gotten curious and drifted around the bench. Tommie handed me some loose ammunition that had been captured with the gun. He mentioned that the SEALs had tried to fire the gun after they'd brought it back to base, but all the rounds they'd tried had been duds.

"I'm not surprised that you had a lot of bad rounds. From the head stamps on the cases, this stuff was made in Germany about 1938 and 1939. Who knows under what kinds of storage conditions this ammo has seen over all these years. Ammo wasn't waterproofed until quite recently, so it figures that you'll get a lot of duds."

Tommie volunteered that when his guys captured the gun and its loaded magazines, it was commanding the trail they used to get to the arms cache. The position was unmanned. Had there been a gunner with good ammo, his whole group of SEALs would have been in deep, deep trouble. The position was well camouflaged and the point man didn't see the gun until he was almost on top of it.

By now, our discussion had drawn-in the rest of the platoon, so I asked, "How about school call on the ZB26/30?" I got a lot of nods from the audience and proceeded to give Tommie and his guys a quick run through on the Czech gun. The gun's finish was very worn, but its overall condition was good. As I took the gun down, I could see that the Viet Minh and VC had tried to keep the gun cleaned and lubricated over the years. The barrel was lightly pitted from firing the corrosive-primed German ammunition, but the whole gun was serviceable and solid. if we'd had good ammo, that gun could have really rattled!

Tommie and the other SEALs thanked me for the impromptu class. At the end of tour, the ZB returned as a war trophy to the SEAL Team ONE compound at Coronado, CA. The last I heard, it was still in their museum.

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Chip Maury and John Rapp
From John Rapp This was taken in 2007 at Mystic Seaport,CT. Photo’s from my visit with Tracker Dan Gerhardt and Mel, and Chip Maury and Judy, and myself in 2006 / 2007… We were all in Mystic Seaport!

EN3 Perry Underwood, PBRs Vietnam K.I.A.

Vietnam War's River Rat Community Honor One of Its Own

By Ed Friedrich Friday, October 17, 2008

BREMERTON, WASH.

Steve Gardner and Zero Ponsdorf

SEAL TWO Photo ALbums by Doc Rio

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